| Bashir: "We are hoping that we are capable of reaching an agreement to solving the problem of Darfur." | ||
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KHARTOUM, Sudan (CNN) -- CNN's Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour Interviewed Lt. Gen. Omar Ahmad al-Bashir, President of Sudan, on August 12. The following is a transcript of the interview.
Amanpour: Mr. President, thank you for joining us on CNN. I want to ask you, the international community, the United States, have given you until the end of this month to disarm the militias, to create safe havens and to stop the violence and to facilitate humanitarian aid, can you meet that deadline? Will you meet that deadline?
Bashir: We are of course, making an effort in implementing what we have agreed upon. For sure, the given date is not sufficient, however, we are able in proving to the world that we are serious, and we will implement what we agreed to.
Amanpour: Because if you don't, you face sanctions basically, what will you do and can you do enough to stave off, to prevent sanctions.
Bashir: Of course, every man does that which he benefits from, and if asked from him to do the impossible then he cant do it, so we give our maxim effort not because we are going to be subject to sanctions but because we are very aware of this problem.
Amanpour: Some have suggested that outside troops come here to keep the peace and stop the violence, would you accept American, British, troops from other countries?
Bashir: We are, truthfully, capable of providing security for the Sudani citizen and we are not willing to accept any foreign forces because honestly, foreign forces will only complicate the situation.
Amanpour: So "No" you will not accept troops?
Bashir: We will not accept foreign forces.
Amanpour: There has been a lot of discussion about Janjaweed, about militias, about killings, about rapes, about ethnic cleansing, Human Rights Watch and others say, your government has recruited, armed, used Janjaweed and other militias to respond to the rebellion you faced in Darfur? Can you reign them in now, can you stop them and will you?
Bashir: Honestly, we would like to agree on a definition for the Janjaweed. If by Janjaweed you mean those people outside the law, those who break the law, those who commit crimes, we are against this and the police now is going after them and arresting them and presenting them to face the courts some of whom have been tried. The discussion about other militias, there are militias belonging to tribes that are not under the control of the government, and the weapons that have made it to Darfur are not weapons from the government however if there are in any groups belonging to the Armed Forces or with their weapons, they can be controlled and at any time they or their weapons can be reigned in. We have now formed a committee, a national committee and below this committee are committees at the state level, there are committees at the municipality level, all of these committees have the objective and the primary goal of collecting all weapons from the citizens so that all weapons are in the hands of the government only.
Amanpour: Many people have said that these Janjaweed are being incorporated into the police force now?
Bashir: For sure in part of dealing with armed elements is to absorb them in other areas, that of course will also take place once we have reached an agreement with the rebels, some will be absorbed into the armed forces, some into the police just as we did with the agreement in the South. We absorbed a lot of the "Movement Forces" into the Armed Forces.
Amanpour: So let me understand this, you are incorporating Janjaweed and militias into the police force?
Bashir: We of course with the Western Janjaweed have not reached an agreement but in regards to the militias that were carrying arms, to deal with this problem, and to guarantee that they don't return to carrying weapons against the citizens, they were absorbed into different parts. The same thing will happen once we reach an agreement with the rebels in Darfur, we will absorb some into the police, into the Armed Forces so that we can guarantee that they don't pick up weapons again and terrorize the citizens.
Amanpour: The position of your government, is that you responded to a rebellion in the west, in retrospect, given that tens of thousands of people have been killed, that a million of have been displaced from their homes, that 2 million people now are dependent on outside aid, do you believe that the governments response, that the military campaign was too heavy, went too far?
Bashir: Really, its not a question of "is it too heavy or too far." The reaction was equal to their action. There were rebels who carried weapons against the state, they started the attack against positions of the state, they attacked 89 police stations, they attacked the Armed Forces, they entered Fasher -- the state capital, so the state had no option but to use force and I guarantee you that the force used was limited because this is an internal security and the principle is to use as little force as possible.
Amanpour: So you don't believe that you used excessive force?
Bashir: We did not use forces beyond what was necessary as evidence in that when the main operations were over, and before the suppression of the rebellion in its entirety which we could have done, we stopped operations when we quelled the rebellion and completely prevented their operations.
Amanpour: Do you think 30,000 to 50,000 deaths and a million people displaced, do you think it was worth it to win this war?
Bashir: The first thing is that we don't agree with these numbers, neither the number of deaths or the number of those displaced. We estimate that the number of deaths on all sides from the rebels and the government to not exceed 5,000 deaths, the displaced, of course all those numbers are exaggerated, the actual numbers are a lot less than those given. We know that the population of Darfur is about 5 million and we know that if take the stated numbers of about a million people, than we know that nearly 4 million are not affected by the war. So of course, these numbers are exaggerated and reports that this problem is widespread through the entire Darfur region is not true. And if you consider that the population of Darfur is 5 million and you take the numbers that they cite of a million, that means 4 million people are not affected by the war which means that the majority of the region and its citizens are living their normal life. And any war, in any part that has civilian inhabitants, the citizens are affected and it is happening now in Iraq, it happened in Afghanistan, it has happened everywhere where there is war.
Amanpour: Final question, do you think you will be able to come to a political solution that will end this war that will end the war between the rebels and the government? That will solve the problem of Darfur?
Bashir: We are hoping that we are capable of reaching an agreement to solving the problem of Darfur, because the problem at its core, is not a complicated one and the complications [that have arisen] are a result of foreign interference. So we are convinced, it is on a political level, the solution is very easy, and the solution is what was already agreed upon in Mashakos and Dafasha.
Amanpour: Mr. President, thank you for joining us on CNN.
Bashir: Thank you very much.
